I had an amazing conversation a few days back with someone on Fet who approached me with some questions about submission, and how people often think of it…

I’d like to share that with you.

THEM

Thank you, Nookie, for the welcome and for running such an amazing group. 🙂 Right now I’m still very new, not very experienced in anything sub, unsure of things. But I have a strong interest in nearly all flavors of Fdom.

There is actually something on my mind, and seeing your message, I feel inspired to go ahead and spill. Maybe you could help me.

don’t know if what I’m about to explain has a name, so please excuse me if it does, but I am looking for what I guess I’d call “competitive intellectual Fdom”. Basically, I want to lose a contest of intelligence with a woman, where I bet my freedom. I lose, I obey her as her slave for the rest of the night, week, etc. It could even be games implemented into the current Fdom play. Win the game, get a treat or a punishment gets reduced, lose the game, get punished more or a treat I was going to get is taken away.

I have no idea what this is called, except what I said above, competitive intellectual Fdom. if it even exists outside of my own head. I assume it must, somewhere. There are BDSM table games and such, not that it would necessarily have to be that. It’s just a game that leads to me surrendering to her.

The competition aspect is fun, but mainly what excites me is the consequences of losing after talking up a big game. I love to lose to a beautiful woman. Have you ever heard of anything like that before? I’ll look through the group discussions and such as well, so maybe I’ll find something similar. Thank you, again.

ME

Yes. I think this is pretty similar to those who like to be overpowered or out-dominated.

I’d suggest posting this and getting feedback from others, because those who have similar desires might love to see this. smiles

THEM

Thank you!!! Out-dominated, I love that.

ME

Thank you.

You see, I don’t believe that submission and dominance are on opposite ends of a continuum, but instead are each their own individual qualities.

Some are neither submissive or dominant. Some are one or the other, while some can be both.

I find that many submissives I know are incredibly dominant in many ways, they just prefer to be less-so in their relationships, and put their care into the hands of others.

THEM

Well, you’ve hit the nail on the head for me. Thank you. Personally, I’m very drawn to the idea of being a dominant, feared, respected person in public, who secretly gives everything to a woman he considers his better. I’ve never been fond of the “loser” “not a real man” direction that so much Msub stuff takes. It’s not about that I suck, it’s about that you are better. I guess you could say I want to know that my submission is lifting up my partner.

ME

So, to give you my perspective, as a dominant woman, if I may…

I do not feel I am superior to my submissive. Merely that in the areas he wants me to excel, I do. We are complementary.

He is the most amazing man I’ve ever known. I work to be the most amazing woman he’s ever known.

He is an energetic leader in his own right, and I appreciate his strength and help him nurture it, but TAKE the lead in our relationship whenever there is any question (and often just because I want to).

That said, I would not “fight” him for it or compete. I personally want it to feel organic and natural, and that he WANTS to submit to me, because it serves us both to do so.

THEM

Interesting! I appreciate the insight. In the end, I think I want what you’re describing, that kind of relationship. I’m just also really competitive, and I think winning things makes them worth more, so I want to be ‘won’ by someone who wants me. I like that more over total submission at the beginning, for some reason.

Checking it out!

ME

I get being “won.”

So, let me present two ideas, based on working with dogs as an enthusiastic amateur trainer and show handler:

• •Breaking a dog to your rule.
• •Creating a deep bond of love that wins the dog heart and soul.

I generally prefer the second. It’s MORE challenging, in my view, and worth the extra time and effort.

THEM

I cannot deny that I like 2 more.

ME

And that may include contests. After all, dogs often tested me (I had LARGE breeds, there are some way back in my photos).

However, did I overpower them? No. Not possible.

How did I out-dominate them?

I kept my cool, calm, loving demeanor, and just waited for them to do the RIGHT thing, then rewarded them for that.

Punishments were really only for when they were a danger to themselves or others.

So, there might be something in there to consider. Is that outsmarting them? MAYBE. It’s being a solid dominant who knows what is right, in my view.

THEM

Yeah, it’s close to what I’ve envisioned. Maybe it’s because I’m a bit of a switch, that I feel the need for any submission to be somewhat obligated, unavoidable. But I don’t like the idea of being physically forced into something, more of a bet gone wrong, do this or go back on your word. And me and her both ultimately know, she could suck at chess, but if I respected her as a dominant, I’d have checkmated myself if I really had to.

Does that make sense at all? The competition is just a display to me, like a ballroom dance, a chance to express ourselves. In reality, I want her to take me. She knows it, I know it, and I pretend not to while she eggs my submission out of me. It’s no so much compete in the sense of “Yeah, you lost, now you have no rights even though you didn’t want this.” It’s more balanced and gentle than that. Like “You didn’t lose on purpose just so this would happen, did you?” In a teasing way.

ME

Well, to me that is play/a negotiated dynamic. Definitely doable.

I think we’ve done some great work drilling down here today. smiles

THEM

You’ve validated so many things for me. I don’t know what to say. Thank you.