I’ve just recently had a messaging experience that I found to be a fascinating study in “My kinky pervy needs are more important than your personal stated preferences,” and because this is a difficult concept to explain, I thought I would share it here, as an example of what often goes wrong in communication.
I am not using his real information. My point is not to call out a guy who is probably mostly awesome in other aspects of his life, but to show how insidious this kind of behavior can be.
This is incredibly long and detailed, so here is the Cliff’s Notes:
TL;DR
Inviting yourself into someone’s inbox, trying to create a relationship with them online when they specifically state they have no interest, and whining about they aren’t telling you what you want to hear makes you look like a douche.
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I am removing personal parts of the conversation, just to highlight the track of this particular behavior over nearly a month. I’ll also comment on the small clues as they come along, for the benefit of everyone to see how easily this can be missed.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 26 days ago:
Please afford me the opportunity to get to know you. Thnx
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 26 days ago:
Feel free to engage me and see where it goes.
smiles
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 26 days ago:
Thank you much for the encouraging reply! I’m heading out shortly, but should be around this evening. Should we arrange a ‘chat date’? lol
:)
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 25 days ago:
I generally prefer to get to know someone here, before I take things into chat.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 25 days ago:
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean “chat” as in online chat. I just meant email exchange, or ideally phone. I’d be glad to get to know you here. It doesn’t feel as ‘real or personal’ to me, as actually talking with someone in a spontaneous discussion, but I’m certainly willing to give it a try. You’ll have to lead (as it should be, lol), the discussion, as I’m not entirely sure on how to proceed in this way. What is it that you’d like to know or would facilitate our getting to know each other? Have you met many from this site ‘in person’? I’ve met a few, some more than once, although I’ve found that most end up amount to spending a lot of time that leads nowhere. I guess it’s not unlike the proverbial needle in the haystack, syndrome, LOL. I look forward to your reply and will check in here more than I usually do, for that reason. 🙂
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 25 days ago:
Usually, when someone approaches me and says they want to get to know me, I let them choose the conversation, since they were the ones with an interest.
Why do you want to get to know me? Let’s start there.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 25 days ago:
I’m interested in a Female-led, cuckold relationship/lifestyle.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 25 days ago:
(which I suppose, may or may not include slavery)
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 25 days ago:
Emphasis on you particularly would be reflected by you’re being experienced and heavily involved, rather than exploring it somewhat as a game, like so many of TNG seem to. Plus of course, being attractive and hopefully very down to earth.
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 24 days ago:
You are quite a distance from me. Everything we talk about is really hypothetical, you know. It’s different with every partner, and I don’t play online.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 24 days ago:
Hi, I realize that I currently live a distance from you. I address that issue in my profile, as my thinking follows the premise that if everyone already had everything/everyone they wanted, there would be no need to even have websites like this… enabling people to meet those who they would not otherwise get to meet at their neighborhood coffee shop, etc.
I’ve traveled several times, significant distances, to meet people I originally met online… some repeat visits. However, it would be foolish & irresponsible to buy a plane ticket, rent a car, hotel, etc. etc. to meet someone with nothing more to go on than a few emails, very brief ones at that.
I don’t “play” online either, but as I just tried to indicate, I’m a realist, willing to do my part to make things happen rather than making excuses for them not to happen. I learned long ago that what you get out of something is generally proportionate to the amount of effort you put into it.
I can only do my part.
Hope you had a great day.
🙂
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 24 days ago:
Ok. You’ve stated your piece. Here’s mine, clearly posted in my own writings on my profile:
I Don’t Do Online: https://fetlife.com/users/50648/posts/2505676
The Other Side of Distance: https://fetlife.com/users/50648/posts/2513163
To clarify again: I don’t do online.
I know that you can move, but that’s not enough, because that would still take many months of online to get to the point where you would know it was worth moving, yes?
And I really prefer to meet and establish chemistry before considering any romantic or D/s relationship of any sort.
So, if you ever find yourself in Raleigh, let me know. We could meet for tea or a meal, and spend time together.
Otherwise, I’m happy to converse a bit online, but no more.
smiles
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 20 days ago:
Hi, It seems that our views are similar enough to at least make an attempt to get know more about each other.
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Here is where I immediately got a clue that he MAY not be on the same page I was. He did not acknowledge my points at all, even cop to reading what I sent. He then went on for a few paragraphs about how he wanted to get to know me, asked questions, etc. I continued with the conversation, because I enjoy discourse, with a little red flag waving in the back of my mind.
Some conversation continued, with him asking about things I’m interested in, where I grew up, and so on. He asked me what it would be like to engage in cuckolding with me, or puppy play.
I very specifically stated that, “My interests change with each person. I like to dig deep into a mind, and find out what motivates it, makes it tick, then respond to that, play with it.” I’m telling you this, so that you see the conversation turns when they come.
Oh, and because I have ZERO interest in providing sank-fodder to someone via private message. If I want to give yawl want fodder, I’ll post it in my writings, so everyone can enjoy! grins
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ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 19 days ago:
Understanding that even cuckold or slave contracts are tailored to the individuals, can you offer even generalized parameters or guidelines on could be expected, as it relates to you and I.
Do you believe in having a contract?
Do you utilize corporal discipline and/or punishment?
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 18 days ago:
Understanding that even cuckold or slave contracts are tailored to the individuals, can you offer even generalized parameters or guidelines on could be expected, as it relates to you and I.
No idea. Like I said, it really is different with everyone.
Do you believe in having a contract?
Yes and no. I believe writing things down makes it easier to communicate, and be on the same page.
I also believe that these things need to flex and grow over time, so a single contract is not the best solution.
Do you utilize corporal discipline and/or punishment?
Yes. But only after a long period of training. My Pet is just now getting some corporal punishment, and we are nearly two years into our relationship.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 14 days ago:
I’m really very interested in following a course that begins with actually getting to know you, but it seems (since you like to debate, lol), that this is ? These very brief replies reveal, well, very little. Often it the man who is accused of not being emotionally available or communicative… not so in this case.
… snipped personal content …
That hardly constitutes getting to know someone enough to travel to them, wouldn’t you agree?
– – – – – –
So, here you can see him beginning to use “soft shaming” as I call it. He’s complaining that I “reveal, well, very little,” and “not being emotionally available or communicative.”
He asks quite a few questions as well,including those I share in the next quote to illustrate the kinds of questions he’s asking to “get to know me.”
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NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 14 days ago:
I answer the questions I’m asked. If I have particular things to elaborate, I do. If you want to know more, you’re welcome to ask.
I’m not sure what the blowback is about. I’m not accusing you of anything.
… snipped personal content …
Last 3 books you read?
The Importance of Being Earnest Deathworld How Real Is Real?
How serious are you about finding a sub, cuck, slave, etc.?
I don’t understand the word “serious” in this context. I’m not “looking,” per se. Just open to who comes into my life, and seeing where it goes.
Anything?
I don’t know how to answer this.
And, frankly, this comes off as a bit entitled. You’re asking me questions that require facts as answers. Facts are easy, and shortly stated. If you want a different response, ask different questions.
For example, if you asked questions about why I wrote X piece on my profile, or what inspired me to post Y photo, there is more to engage there than in what I had for breakfast.
Or, “Where did you live in [state]? Did you enjoy it? Why or why not?”
I mean, if I was trying to create a conversation, that’s what I would do.
– – – – – –
I state my position clearly. I offer some suggestions, and my point of view.
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ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 13 days ago:
I’ve had numerous successful, lasting and rewarding friendships/relationships develop from online ‘meetings’… not all, of course. We had a dialogue, an actual conversation, that really gave each of us a sense of who the other person was/is. The conversation simply flowed.
… snipped personal content …
The above are attempts to get to know you, They seem, to me anyway, segments of a typical conversation that would foster two people getting to know each other, as people. A dialogue ought to FEEL different than a question/answer interview with a reporter.
… snipped personal content …
What are your thoughts about actual phone conversation?
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So, rather than engaging me about the answers to the questions I gave him, or discussing what I meant with my suggestions, he comes back at me with what HE believes a conversation should be, and suggestions on how I change.
Not only is he a submissive male approaching me as a female dominant, but he has also been put on notice that I am simply enjoying conversation, not developing a relationship online.
With this message, he is trying to steer me to his way of thinking and doing.
And, please, let me be clear: This would not be cool if he were a dominant male and I a submissive female (or any other combinations of sexes and roles), unless that was a stated and agreed upon relationship dynamic. This is getting to know you, not “how can I berate you for being exactly who you are.”
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ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 13 days ago:
Also… what does the ideal of having a male as your personal “bitch”, look like in your world – experiential or imagined? I wonder if that might blend in to some degree, with your penchant for cuckolding, puppy play, etc.
It does mine, lol For whatever reason, I find it evokes a rather powerful ‘reaction’.
Do you have any feelings or experiences about ’emasculating’ a male, which you find arousing or pleasing? I noticed a pic or two that would suggest so. I’ve found it is extremely empowering for a few Dominant women I’ve known/know.
Thnx
– – – – – –
So, he’s fishing for wank fodder again.
– – – – – –
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 13 days ago:
… snipped personal content …
However, there is also the IDEAL, the fetish, what about it appeals to someone (you, in this case), IDEALLY, the “in a perfect world” scenario.
Perhaps you don’t understand that you are asking the wrong question.
Neither puppy play nor cuckolding is required in my life. They are simply games or tools that add to my main focus: mental intimacy and behavior modification.
Nothing else matters, so there is no “ideal.” It’s all about the connection between two people.
A dialogue ought to FEEL different than a question/answer interview with a reporter.
Well, then it’s about the right/wrong questions. I am a logical person. I will answer as I think the question requires, then see where the other person leads it from there.
There is a lot of depth to explore, as you have begun.
What are your thoughts about actual phone conversation?
I tend to not really like phone. But I’m willing to Skype or whatever to voice verify.
Also… what does the ideal of having a male as your personal “bitch”, look like in your world – experiential or imagined?
I don’t use that word. It’s too feminine for me.
And I don’t see my partners as “less than,” but as equals who have different strengths.
Do you have any feelings or experiences about ’emasculating’ a male, which you find arousing or pleasing?
I don’t emasculate. He may feel more feminine, but that’s not my requirement. I do what I do because I love textures and contrasts. He enjoys it for the feminization, sometimes. For the humiliation. For the turn-on. I love his reaction, but I don’t do it for the reasons he loves it.
So, you see? Your assumptions take you down the wrong path in your questioning, so you get answers that may not make as much sense or fulfill whatever you’re looking for from asking the question.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 12 days ago:
I don’t actually think it is the answers per se… it is more that the Q/A format, to me, doesn’t lend itself to a feeling of intimacy, which is odd because that seems to be at the core of what you seek (myself as well). Perhaps with a bit more experience, I’ll be able to relate it more to the affect associated with personal-type conversation(s).
It is a unique challenge, to blend a vanilla type exchange in with the fact that our paths have crossed as a result of our mutual connection to the world of BDSM.
… snipped personal content …
Skype is fine with me, although I’ll have to figure out how to use it. Now that I think of it, you don’t know what I look like above the shoulders, lol.
As for cuckolding & puppy training… to me, it is a freedom and trust to ‘let go’ completely, trust and totally submit, knowing it involves a willingness to expose one’s self to humiliation (among other things)… that is proportionate to the framework of emotional intimacy that you appear to understand (and seek), so well. ‘Talking’ it out, seems to be facilitating the initial stages of that process… which I just sensed as I type this.
I’ve only used Skype successfully once, although I tried twice (second time the other person didn’t have volume), so I know it’s possible and I have a Skype icon. Of course that treads near the border that holds me hostage to ‘insecurity’ and ‘fear of rejection’, LOL Then again, as indicated earlier, that’s an unavoidable component to abject submission, cuckolding, doggie training and/or related activities & interests.
So… having largely avoided the Question/Answer format … I look forward to (hopefully), a free-flowing & comprehensive reply!
🙂
– – – – – –
What he means by this last line, of course, is a reply that meets HIS standards of free-flowing and comprehensive. At this point, it is eminently clear to me that we are not a match of any sort (has really been for a while), but I continue on with he conversation. I am entertained and engaged, and wondering how far he will take all of this.
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ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 12 days ago:
I don’t emasculate. He may feel more feminine, but that’s not my requirement. I do what I do because I love textures and contrasts. He enjoys it for the feminization, sometimes. For the humiliation. For the turn-on. I love his reaction, but I don’t do it for the reasons he loves it.
Sorry, but I’m not entirely sure what you meant by this… can you Please elaborate. “Textures and contrasts” feel a little vague, in the context of our discussion.
I guess the question becomes… what are the reasons that you do it? What about it turns YOU on?
As an extension of that… how deeply do you enjoy ‘control’… to what degree are you comfortable & capable of exercising it? Micro management?
—
So, the bit here that I find most amusing is the need to add, “‘Textures and contrasts’ feel a little vague, in the context of our discussion.”
It wasn’t necessary to say it felt vague. Or cast any judgment on it at all. It would have been easy to say, “What do you mean by ‘textures and contrasts’? That’s interesting to me.”
It’s completely unnecessary to go further than stating your own position.
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NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 12 days ago:
… snipped personal content …
I guess the question becomes… what are the reasons that you do it? What about it turns YOU on?
Well, I get off on the trust.
Have you read my writings at all? I go very in depth into why I do what I do in those, and also what I do in some examples.
So, I guess that’s why I’ve mentioned reading those, and possibly using them for discussion. I say what I need to say, and yet, it’s in context. Taken out of the context, the reasons and experience change, so I use the experiences as containers for specific thoughts and processes.
… snipped personal content …
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 12 days ago:
… snipped personal content …
I read a couple of things you wrote, but the essence of what I’m trying to discover about you/BDSM would be better understood if presented in a ‘hands on’, experiential and practical application/experience. That tends to set the stage & reveal more about the underlying theoretical & underlying elements of arousal, satisfaction and pleasure.
Was I mistaken in thinking of you as a Domme? I have the impression that you’d appreciate receiving complete obedience.
To me, it seems like an easy, practical matter to simply explain how a person’s fantasies would look when being applied, rather than imagined. For example, the woman I knew who was totally into puppy play, began with a conversation of course, but the first application thereof, involved getting a newspaper and putting a couple of sheets on the bathroom floor, as you might for a puppy who is learning to be potty-trained or ‘housebroken’.
Will you provide me at least a fundamental outline of how you’d apply your knowledge, interest & experience in doggie training, to a human male?
That was her first step in the training process, the mental results were extreme… evoking a previously unknown take on total submission
Because each Dominant has Her own style, her own approach to training the male, I believe it warrants strict control initially, as a means to tailor the male’s behavior, rituals, etc. to the unique demands or preferences of an individual Dominant. I believe you reference it as “BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION”, which, with me, seems to elicit a very compelling, almost irresistible, desire to open the gate to ever increasing obedience… the complementary result of trust, openness and candor.
It just boils down to theory & practice. As we agree, the application can be tailored to the individuals, but nonetheless there is a definite understanding or approach to how someone would ‘like’ to apply or express their fantasies in real life application.
That’s what I’ve been trying to learn about with you. Does that make sense? lol
Would you like to schedule our Skype meeting?
– – – – – –
Again, here he goes on and on about how he wants me to communicate with him, how he sees the conversation progressing ideally, how he has experienced things in the past, all with the goal of trying to get me to conform, without actually engaging me to find out why I say what I say to him, or even address it in any meaningful way.
Like he says, “That’s nice, now let’s talk about how to do it again.”
And, he keeps talking about his submission to me, which I have not encouraged, nor do I want.
I respond to his points, trying to see if he can acknowledge that I am a human with my own views, not meant to simply br brought around to his way of thinking…
– – – – – –
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 11 days ago:
I read a couple of things you wrote, but the essence of what I’m trying to discover about you/BDSM would be better understood if presented in a ‘hands on’, experiential and practical application/experience.
Well, I think what I write is about as close as you’ll get, until/unless you actually experience it.
To me, it seems like an easy, practical matter to simply explain how a person’s fantasies would look when being applied, rather than imagined.
To you. That is the key, yes? Your experience is not mine.
Isn’t getting to know someone about learning their experience?
Your experience is valid to me. However, it doesn’t seem like my experience is being validated by you.
For example, the woman I knew who was totally into puppy play, began with a conversation of course, but the first application thereof, involved getting a newspaper and putting a couple of sheets on the bathroom floor, as you might for a puppy who is learning to be potty-trained or ‘housebroken’.
That’s nice. Her experience is that she has very specific physical play needs.
I’m not sure how many times I can tell you that I do not have specific play needs. I have specific mental needs, and my play needs are different with each partner, because I elicit the mental based on their reactions to the physical.
You’re not going to get another answer.
This is why I suggested my writings. Because they encompass many experiences, and give examples of how I interact with different people, and also how I elicit the mental I desire in various ways.
However, none of those are exactly repeatable. Nor do I have a desire to repeat them.
Because each Dominant has Her own style, her own approach to training the male, I believe it warrants strict control initially, as a means to tailor the male’s behavior, rituals, etc. to the unique demands or preferences of an individual Dominant.
You believe. Again, you feel a need to tell me your belief in response to mine that does not fit your view. Why are you trying to get me to conform to the way you think female dominance should be done?
YOUR fantasy is that she immediately take control. That has nothing to do with me.
I believe you reference it as “BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION”, which, with me, seems to elicit a very compelling, almost irresistible, desire to open the gate to ever increasing obedience… the complementary result of trust, openness and candor.
Yes, it does.
And the way I do it is MY way. Your thoughts of taking immediate control are, to me, the stuff of porn and bad wank-fodder.
I have no interest in that.
It just boils down to theory & practice.
How much practice do you have? How long have you been in the lifestyle? How many deep, intimate D/s relationships have you been in? How many years?
Perhaps that will help me understand your experience better.
As we agree, the application can be tailored to the individuals, but nonetheless there is a definite understanding or approach to how someone would ‘like’ to apply or express their fantasies in real life application.
We do not agree. The application of BDSM in my world IS tailored to the individual. Period. There is no ‘can be.’
You are asking about my kink. If you want someone who will parrot your kinks, look elsewhere. Because right now, it seems to me that you are too busy trying to convince me I’m not communicating right to actually communicate with me.
Would you like to schedule our Skype meeting?
I wouldn’t, at this point. Until and unless I feel a meeting of the minds, I see no point.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 11 days ago:
How much practice do you have? How long have you been in the lifestyle? How many deep, intimate D/s relationships have you been in? How many years?
Perhaps that will help me understand your experience better.
My ‘real life, in person’ experience began in the 70’s, in California. I’ve been in ‘the lifestyle’ on/off since then, largely on.
How many “deep, intimate D/s relationships” … with no empirical, qualifying or definitive diagnostic criteria, I’d say 4, maybe 5, depending on the criteria. A couple being ‘more so’ than the others. This in addition to many encounters, experiences, interludes, call them what you will. A more detailed explanation would require more time/space, perhaps if/when we actually talk.
I began rather young, and unexpectedly, even unwittingly.
– – – – – –
See how he answers the one question, but does not address any of the other statements I made? He is doggedly pursuing the avenues he sees to get his point across.
Since he feels he has lots of experience, he answers that question. Only to bring it up again… well, you’ll see.
– – – – – –
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 11 days ago:
Since each experience for you is predicated on an experiential, mental approach, I haven’t taken what free time I have, to search through all your experiences with other people.
My take on things that all things have some similar parameters, which define them… for example… if someone asks “Do you like to swim”… the reply might be yes/no. Without knowing specifically if the someone prefers to swim underwater SCUBA, breast stroke or back stroke, we can all agree that they like being in the water, basically. Some might like the ocean, some might fear it & prefer lap swimming at a gym pool. That is all I was trying to discern from you.
Example… puppy play, I’m not sure how your realize that in practical application. I was merely trying to illustrate from my only experience with it.
The fact that you’ve told me to ask questions if I want specific answers, and that you value communication (as do I), in fairness to myself, seems to place a lot of the responsibility to carry the conversation or move it along, on me. I ask, you answer… I’ve asked for elaboration, not in an effort to do things my way, but to understand what your way is. This is one of the few times you’ve asked a question.
I hope it is apparent that I’m not trying to engage in controversy, but to remain fully committed to candid communication… rather than fear saying something ‘wrong’.
If you don’t want to Skype, so be it. I’m not here to argue, that much I know. If phone is a consideration, so be it. If not, so be it. If you don’t want to communicate at all, so be it. I’m at a loss as to what I’m supposed to ask or say.
I’m not interested in making it a contest of wills. I am however, interested in submitting, cuckolding, doggie training, whatever, with you.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 11 days ago:
The countless photos, texts, profiles, illustrations, fetishes, etc. related to corporal clearly follow a common thread, as with 90% of the many lifestyle clubs/parties I’m aware of. However, it is that clarity or individualized understanding of (yours, herein)… that I’ve been trying to learn. It is not that I disagree or disapprove of… or wouldn’t deeply respond… to your approach. I would. In fact, I just realized that I ALREADY AM.
I need to be somewhere in 17 minutes, so I hope to Please hear more from/about you later today.
– – – – – –
He starts off with an excuse for NOT reading anything I’ve written, then goes on for paragraphs telling me how I’m doing things wrong in his view.
Be aware, I am actually not patient here, but researching how this will move forward. I’m enjoying the conversation, and confirming suspicions as well as learning a few new things as well.
He also feels a need to tell me that he is feeling submissive to me. While telling me I’m WRONG WRONG WRONG! LOL!
– – – – – –
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 11 days ago:
I haven’t taken what free time I have, to search through all your experiences with other people.
I would not expect you to search through “all my experiences with other people.”
However, I have mentioned my writings as a source of insight several times. Your questions often touch on things that are regularly covered in my writings, and you make assumptions that would have been cleared up by my writings as well.
Which is one reason I post them. So that others can determine my congruency, personality, and thoughts on their own time.
Example… puppy play, I’m not sure how your realize that in practical application. I was merely trying to illustrate from my only experience with it.
I realize it after discussing it with my submissive, and finding out what they get out of such play. I think of what I might like to do to get a reaction that works well for us both, and I determine whether that is consistent with my interests.
So, it’s not a question that I can answer FOR you. I would need to answer it with you, if we got to that point.
I ask, you answer… I’ve asked for elaboration, not in an effort to do things my way, but to understand what your way is. This is one of the few times you’ve asked a question.
The questions you’ve been asking have not lent themselves to my elaboration. I’ve already said so clearly.
I’m not interested in making it a contest of wills. I am however, interested in submitting, cuckolding, doggie training, whatever, with you.
Why?
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ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 10 days ago:
… snipped personal content …
I don’t want to beg the question, but I will raise the idea, that perhaps the discussion might be sliding into more of a contest than a genuine exchange of ideas and experiences.
I will however (at the risk of this sounding peculiar or unlikely), yet with complete honesty & candor… admit that I find myself feeling increasingly submissive when I find your notes in my Inbox. Perhaps I’m simply aroused because it is, to the best of my knowledge, nothing intentional on either of our parts.
You’re point would seem reinforced coming on the tails of this confession… as YOU need not whip me to get a confession. Rest assured, I didn’t tell you this to please you, although if it does, then all the better.
—
He does not engage me on any of my points. He simply adds an accusation, then moves directly into practicing his kink without my consent or interest.
—
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 10 days ago:
… snipped personal content …
Would you find it odd that I’m actually feeling somewhat vulnerable (therefore to at least some degree, trusting), by having confessed that hearing from you arouses feelings of nearly unbridled submission… or something similar… something that feels as though I want to express it through obedience.?.
… snipped personal content …
In closing, my confidence has been renewed… namely that our paths do converge at the same crossroad, of philosophy & desire… providing we allow (and assist) each other to navigate around the prerequisite ‘semantics’ of this website.
– – – – – –
More of his personal kink. His insistence on creating intimacy through online connection, despite my saying it’s not a interest of mine.
– – – – – –
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 9 days ago:
… snipped personal content …
Would you find it odd that I’m actually feeling somewhat vulnerable (therefore to at least some degree, trusting), by having confessed that hearing from you arouses feelings of nearly unbridled submission… or something similar… something that feels as though I want to express it through obedience.?
No. I would not. That’s not unusual, in my experience.
… snipped personal content …
In closing, my confidence has been renewed… namely that our paths do converge at the same crossroad, of philosophy & desire… providing we allow (and assist) each other to navigate around the prerequisite ‘semantics’ of this website.
We’ll see.
– – – – – –
And now, he starts really getting cranky that I’m not following his lead in the conversation. The proverbial gauntlet has been thrown.
– – – – – –
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 6 days ago:
I hope your weekend is getting off to a fine start.
After reading your last note a couple of days ago, I was at a lost as to what to write next. As I touched on earlier in the correspondence, it seems like an interview more than a balanced conversation. The content seems to rest on what I say or ask. Your most recent reply seems to illustrate that clearly… you cut/paste a reply to what I write but there seems to be no initiative on your part, nothing to engage in on a conversational level.
To continue such a one-sided dialogue with me having to initiate the topic and carry the entire conversation is rather futile. I ask a question about something… you answer… yes/no… there’s no glue to connect the exchange beyond what I come up with… it’s a dead-end, unless you have an idea.
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 6 days ago:
Well, see, I think just the opposite. For example, were I in your shoes, here’s what I might reply:
No. He discovered that he has stage four pancreatic cancer a few weeks ago. That is a higher priority than remaining as my sub, even for me.
Oh. Well, I’m so sorry to hear that. I guess i just assumed the relationship had ended for the usual reasons. That must be difficult. Were you close?
No. I would not. That’s not unusual, in my experience.
Really? That’s interesting. I’m not sure I’ve experienced it before. can you tell me a bit more about this?
In any sort of relationship with me, it is incumbent upon all parties to speak.
So, how does that work with D/s? Do you put rules into place, or create protocols or rituals around communication? How do you encourage it, if your submissive is not used to being able to speak up?
—
And those are just examples.
So, I’m not quite sure why you keep complaining about me not giving back. A conversation is back and forth. Just because I answer the question does not mean that’s all I have to say, but if you show no further interest in my life and answers, why should I be trying to formulate answers that match your method of communicating?
18 days ago I made very clear my stance on online. I also made clear that since you contacted me, you would be driving the conversation.
I enjoy the back-and-forth we have had. If you don’t, that’s fine, and I wish you the best.
– – – – – –
I use examples from our conversation to show how he could continue engaging me, if he chose. I also make it very clear that he may continue or not as he sees fit.
– – – – – –
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 5 days ago:
My reply was meant to be in the form of an observation, rather than a complaint.
A representative sample:
You wrote: No. I would not. That’s not unusual, in my experience.
The reply you formulated for me via proxy:
Really? That’s interesting. I’m not sure I’ve experienced it before. can you tell me a bit more about this?
I’ve asked and commented, several times… for you to elaborate on things. This suggests I have to ask or draw out a more in depth response on each individual topic. It certainly seems like a needless step(s), when the question/topic as presented invites elaboration.
In any sort of relationship with me, it is incumbent upon all parties to speak. <– I’d already said that very thing… then there’s this: So, how does that work with D/s? Do you put rules into place, or create protocols or rituals around communication? How do you encourage it, if your submissive is not used to being able to speak up?
Why not just explain your thoughts/rules/protocols without all the cumbersome steps and Q/A analysis needing to be involved?
You already know these are relevant issues, not only by virtue of the website itself, but because I’ve repeatedly asked for elaboration on things such as this.
After all, you did say (and I agree), that the Woman/You are the one to provide the leadership role, for me to follow.
It often seems like you prefer a contest over a more free flowing & beneficial exchange that fosters the pursuit of our mutual interests. We’re still doing just that, LOL
I don’t know that learning your explicit rules/protocols qualify as ‘online’.
For the sake of clarity… it is not that I don’t want to abide by your rules/protocol; it’s more a matter that I simply don’t understand what that entails and/or how to proceed.
My interest from the outset has been and continues to be, your interest in cuckolding and being Dominant, male submission up to & including at least some degree of feminization, perhaps Owning a male, as well as the dog training.
How do you suggest we get to know each other in a realistic and mutually rewarding fashion… encouraging and supportive enough to travel/meeting?
I have to run an errand, but hopefully can hook up with you later today
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 5 days ago:
This suggests I have to ask or draw out a more in depth response on each individual topic. It certainly seems like a needless step(s), when the question/topic as presented invites elaboration.
To you. To me, it shows interest in continuing discussion on that topic. Seems simple.
Why not just explain your thoughts/rules/protocols without all the cumbersome steps and Q/A analysis needing to be involved?
I do. In my writings. If you want more than that, continue the conversation.
You see? You want more, but you want me to just give you volumes of content. I’m happy to converse, but not to take a simple question and make it a novel, when it might be just a passing fancy.
That is no more a conversation than you complain this is.
After all, you did say (and I agree), that the Woman/You are the one to provide the leadership role, for me to follow.
No. that’s not true. I don’t own you, nor have I accepted that role. We are equals, except for the fact that you initiated this conversation and interest, which put you in the position of pursuing it.
It often seems like you prefer a contest over a more free flowing & beneficial exchange that fosters the pursuit of our mutual interests.
You are interpreting it that way. I am not.
I don’t know that learning your explicit rules/protocols qualify as ‘online’.
It doesn’t. Except when you ask how they would apply to YOU.
For the sake of clarity… it is not that I don’t want to abide by your rules/protocol; it’s more a matter that I simply don’t understand what that entails and/or how to proceed.
For the sake of clarity, there are no rules protocol, since I don’t own you.
Act like a human, I will, too.
My interest from the outset has been and continues to be, your interest in cuckolding and being Dominant, male submission up to & including at least some degree of feminization, perhaps Owning a male, as well as the dog training.
Yes, and you are asking questions and I am answering.
How do you suggest we get to know each other in a realistic and mutually rewarding fashion… encouraging and supportive enough to travel/meeting?
Well, I don’t. I mean, getting to know each other is wonderful. If you want to read my writings, and be able to comment more specifically on things you are curious about, that would help.
But I am not conversing to make this worth traveling for. If that happens, that’s on you. I’m doing it because I enjoy conversing.
Simple as that.
If we meet, then YAY! I love meting new people. If we hit it off, even better.
I have no expectations for that, so I am not working towards that. Simply enjoying this as we go now.
– – – – – –
Restating my points. Very likely while he was sending the following messages.
– – – – – –
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 5 days ago:
In between errands and going to a movie. Checking email and thinking that this is not unlike playing tennis, in some ways. Ideally, neither of us like ‘online’, but I find myself thinking that it’s probably warranted in our case… we can talk ‘about’ it… or we can actually move on to the court and start playing with each other. I’ll serve.
We’ve each had at least one successful online D/s relationship, so I know it can work… it’s an excellent way to get enough of a feel for each other’s place/practice and set the stage to transfer it to in-person.
After all, slaves were often sized up and acquired at auction, prior to being taken back to the plantation to begin their Mistress/Master’s rule.
We have nothing to lose… nothing ventured, nothing gained. It’s not something I’d have expected, nor been willing to pursue before now… but in & off itself, doesn’t seem like such a bad bad approach to explore.
There are pros as well as cons… What are your misgivings about doing so?
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 5 days ago:
At least we’d have a progress continue to adhere to, timeframes for meeting, guidelines… and something founded in practice rather than just theory. A trial run, a test drive of sorts.
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 5 days ago:
Slaves were bought, and could be sold or given away.
We are not talking slavery. We are talking about two people interacting with a relationship.
That’s not about the health of a slave or their willingness to work. It’s about thousands of small points of compatibility.
We’ve each had at least one successful online D/s relationship, so I know it can work… it’s an excellent way to get enough of a feel for each other’s place/practice and set the stage to transfer it to in-person.
Did you read my post about why I don’t do online? And my message about what I am willing to do?
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 5 days ago:
One of the few things we’ve clearly agreed on is that, for the most part, each fetish can be or should be, tailored and to meet each person/couple’s circumstance/desires/etc. It therefore stands to reason… that it would make sense to know how a given fetish or practice would apply to ME AND YOU. i.e., doggie training
Also, cuckolding… would it involved wearing a chastity device, performing bi & clean-up functions, helping you prepare for dates… (I’ve seen a few contracts for Domme/cuck couples and have been a Bull on more than one occasion… each with basic practices and rules in place, yet modified to the couple & circumstance)
It seem logical in my world anyway, lol … that one could only make intelligent and informed decisions, if they have a reasonable understanding of what to expect, what is involved. It shouldn’t be a guessing game. Fair?
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 4 days ago:
It seem logical in my world anyway, lol … that one could only make intelligent and informed decisions, if they have a reasonable understanding of what to expect, what is involved. It shouldn’t be a guessing game. Fair?
I’ll agree that it seems logical in your world.
In mine, that’s not how it works.
Perhaps it’s easier to see me as a facilitator of myself and another getting what we want through cooperation at first, eventually finding a path that leads us together towards a benevolent dictatorship.
However, I don’t generally “Date” D/s at first, even if that is acknowledged. I date as equals, getting to know the person as they are (perhaps there are top and bottom plays) until the power is transferred after much time, and an agreement is met.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 4 days ago:
I understand your approach and of course it is not without merit. Conversely though, I lean toward the fact that Fetlife isn’t Match.com and consequently sets the nature of the relationship…
As for the transfer of power, I’m willing to do so and see how it works out. I’ve found that in life, or in mine anyway, there are patterns or types, of people, etc. In broad categories, there are those who (a) make things happen (b) set the stage to let things happen (c) those who don’t open the door when opportunity is knocking, ending up wondering what the hell happened.
I understand “getting to know the person as they are”… but in our case, I don’t have a sense I actually know you anymore now than before I even wrote the first time. The upside is that perhaps that makes you/us unique. lol
If an agreement suits you, I’d certainly be interested to hear at least an outline of the procedures/protocol… and my guess is that I’d probably follow and obey.
🙂
– – – – – –
He says:
I understand your approach and of course it is not without merit. Conversely though, I lean toward the fact that Fetlife isn’t Match.com and consequently sets the nature of the relationship…
Awesome! Good to know that the life I choose for myself is “not without merit.” Also, i had no idea that FetLife and Match.com are different sites. Where the fuck has my head been?
LOL! This is extremely condescending. He’s suggesting that I am not capable, as a DOMME HE IS PURSUING of setting my own relationship paths and standards. I am making the mistake here, and good for me that he came along to set me right.
– – – – – –
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 4 days ago:
Conversely though, I lean toward the fact that Fetlife isn’t Match.com and consequently sets the nature of the relationship…
I prefer to do what’s right for me and in my eyes, regardless of the surroundings or others’ behaviors.
(b) set the stage to let things happen
I am this type. I set the stage, and those who want what I offer follow, and give over their power.
I do not need to take. I don’t ever hide my head, although I do often turn things down when offered, if they are not a fit.
I understand “getting to know the person as they are”… but in our case, I don’t have a sense I actually know you anymore now than before I even wrote the first time.
That’s too bad. Seems I’ve actually given you a lot of detail. Frankly, it seems like you are not going to get what you want from me.
I am exactly who I am, and your railing against that is not going to change it. Those who follow me and love me love exactly the things about me that you seem to complain about.
If an agreement suits you, I’d certainly be interested to hear at least an outline of the procedures/protocol… and my guess is that I’d probably follow and obey.
I don’t understand what you are getting at, here.
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written 3 days ago:
the power is transferred after much time, and an agreement is met. <– I was referencing that dynamic in my reply:
If an agreement suits you, I’d certainly be interested to hear at least an outline of the procedures/protocol… and my guess is that I’d probably follow and obey.
As for getting to know you, details, etc. The only other way that comes to mind to explain it might be that the Q/a format, and “writing about writing” and “talking about conversation” does not necessarily mean one is engaged in… that any meaningful degree of intimacy has been established. For whatever reason you’re not seeing that, and trying to explain it has become redundant. It isn’t unlike a battle plan where Generals sit around the table lost in the argot of their profession… discussing strategy, plans, personnel, deployments, yada yada… but once their on the battlefield all the variables, including the unforeseen, come into play and the outcome may look nothing at all like the plan, gathered from the intelligence reports, etc. Same can be said of a corporate board room, they can discuss marketing, inventory, yada yada … but at some point you have to leave the boardroom behind and get the product or service into the hands of the consumers, and only then will success or failure be determined.
If I may suggest it… I’m willing to make an effort, in fact I’m trying to, go move this forward… perhaps call it a ‘test marketing’ campaign, or a “probe” in military terms… out of the discussions of the boardroom, beyond mere theory and into practice. As a wise old Estonian Proverb proclaims… “The work will show you how to do it.’
Sometime I’ve only done once ever and it wasn’t on my own volition even then… I thought I would wear panties when addressing you here this morning. A display of submission and a willingness to obediently follow you.
If you don’t want to put theory into practice, I understand. I can only try and HOPE that my doing so provides you at least some measure of Pleasure.
– – – – – –
OMG! The YUR DOING IT RONG is strong with this one. Maybe if he just throws words at me about manly things like military, I will simply accept my place the dial-a-mistress of his dreams.
– – – – – –
NookieNotes 41F
Raleigh, North Carolina
written 3 days ago:
If an agreement suits you, I’d certainly be interested to hear at least an outline of the procedures/protocol… and my guess is that I’d probably follow and obey.
I do not exchange power online, nor with just anyone. My Pet and I didn’t create a formal exchange for 8 months, and that was quick for me.
I take the responsibilities of power exchange very seriously. To me, it is akin to getting engaged.
I would never do that with someone I’ve not even met and don’t live near.
Now, I’ll be clear, I don’t knock others who do. I just don’t choose that route for myself, as I thought I had made clear over and over through my conversation with you and my writings, the links to which I’ve sent in these messages.
The only other way that comes to mind to explain it might be that the Q/a format, and “writing about writing” and “talking about conversation” does not necessarily mean one is engaged in… that any meaningful degree of intimacy has been established.
I am engaged. If you are not, that’s on you. If you think I’m not, that’s also on you.
You’re right, though. No meaningful degree of intimacy has been established.
Again, over and over, I have said I have no interest in establishing interest online.
I’m beginning to wonder about your experience with people/women online and off. Do you not find that people mean what they say? Or is it just that you have often enough been able to change their minds (of even dominant women), that you completely ignore their stated positions?
I thought I would wear panties when addressing you here this morning. A display of submission and a willingness to obediently follow you.
How, exactly do you feel this is a display of submission? Or willingness to obediently follow me?
I guess it’s so far from what I would consider either of those things to be that you’ve piqued my interest.
– – – – – –
To be clear, I did not in any of the excerpted chats ask him to do anything for me, ever. To me, his wearing panties is simply an expression of his own fetishism, and telling me about it is trying to involve me without my consent.
I’m not offended, and I don’t care. It’s just many many miles away (like Earth to Pluto far) from what I think of when I think of submission or willingness to follow to do it on his own.
– – – – – –
ThisRandomInternetGuy 95M
BFE, 2,442.6 mi away
written about 19 hours ago:
I could point out a couple of subtle contradictions surrounding online involvement.
However, there’s no point. This to me is nothing but an endless diatribe, drivel… leading nowhere.
My interest was sincere, but my goal is not to take 5 or 10 years to get to know you well enough to travel to you.
Oddly, you espouse an egalitarian approach, being equals, etc. yet when actual accountability comes into play and mutual responsibility, you’re quick to avoid it… and simple put everything “on you”
I’m sure you’ll find someone who is content to do nothing but write emails that accomplish nothing toward what we both claimed to be seeking and interested in.
Question my experience all you want, it began in 1978 and I have A LOT of it… in person (far, far more than you of that I’m sure), and an adequate amount online.
Be well.
– – – – – –
See how he throws in that note about his experience? Yeah, he’s been “at it” since I was five years old. Because that makes his way of subbing more valid than my way of domination, duh.
– – – – – –
You can’t respond to this conversation because ThisRandomInternetGuy has deactivated their account, you’ve blocked them, or they’ve blocked you.
– – – – – –
So, in addition to pointing out the many ways to show a person that you couldn’t care less about what they think or feel, despite professing a desire to serve them and follow their lead, to me, this is a prime example of making your own decisions.
There are many people who will sing my praises (and many who won’t), however, this guy and I are not a match on a very basic communication level, and then add to our incredibly different ideas on how humans should be treated (much less how to treat a person you may be interested in entering a power exchange with), a relationship be a nightmare, and probably make both of us look awful by the end.
Again, I’m not calling him a bad guy. I don’t know him well enough for that. Also, his desires and needs are no less valid than mine. They are just not MORE valid than mine, either.
I’m simply saying that his approach is one that many men take towards women, whether sub or dom. And some women take towards men as well.
No matter how it happens, it’s never a good thing, IMO.
Your thoughts? Did you make it through? LOL!
